questioner: I do self-inquiry just as you are describing it, and I guess you are using different words for it such as "tasting yourself," "seeing yourself directly." I set aside time to do it, and I guess it is different from meditation practices, where one would follow the breath or do different concentrative practices. I want to get a little clarification.
John Sherman: That's good. I did it as a practice, when I finally abandoned my allegiance to these neo-advaita ideas about effortlessness, and not doing a practice, and so forth.
questioner: It's just a little confusing. I guess it's mainly because of the challenges inherent in talking about it. You say things such as "a practice can't help and it can't hurt."
John Sherman: When I talk about the practices that can't help and can't hurt, I mean the practices that try to change your mind; practices that seek to change the way in which this life unfolds.
questioner: But you also included the practice of witnessing, which to me seems very close to this that you describe.
John Sherman: It seems close, but it really isn't. From what I understand about witnessing, it is the practice of taking on the point of view of the witness, of sinking into the point of view of the non-involved, detached witness. But the enactment of that practice is witnessed by you. The only way it is possible to report on that is because you see it. So, the trying to adopt this viewpoint of the witness is still turning around this central idea that I am this life and this mind, and what is required here is for me to become detached, dispassionate, and witness only. It is okay. However, in no way does this practice bring you to a direct meeting with yourself. You are the one who is seeing all of this witnessing that is going on. You are the awareness of the witnessing. You are the source of that. You are the source of the impulse to do this practice. You are not a witness that is here today and gone tomorrow. You are here always. So, the practice of self-inquiry is, in all cases and all states whatsoever, to look for the subject: Okay, here I am, in the state of witnessing. Who sees that?
~ for the rest of this talk, see this.
And for Sadhu Om's view of the practice of witnessing, please see this post.
Showing posts with label witnessing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label witnessing. Show all posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2008
Friday, April 20, 2007
Self-enquiry: an active investigation, not a passive witnessing
A conversation between David Godman and John David:
jd: Is he [Sri Ramana Maharshi] on the record as saying that it [self-enquiry] is the quickest and most direct way?
DG: Yes. He mentioned this on many occasions, but it was not his style to force it on people. He wanted devotees to come to it when they were ready for it.
jd: So even though he accepted whatever practices people were involved in, he was quite clear the quickest and most direct tool would be self-enquiry?
DG: Yes, and he also said that you had to stick with it right up to the moment of realization.
For Bhagavan, it wasn't a technique that you practiced for an hour a day, sitting cross-legged on the floor. It is something you should do every waking moment, in combination with whatever actions the body is doing.
He said that beginners could start by doing it sitting, with closed eyes, but for everyone else, he expected it to be done during ordinary daily activities.
jd: With regard to the actual technique, would you say that it is to be aware, from moment to moment, what is going on in the mind?
DG: No, it's nothing to do with being aware of the contents of the mind. It's a very specific method that aims to find out where the individual sense of 'I' arises. Self-enquiry is an active investigation, not a passive witnessing.
For example, you may be thinking about what you had for breakfast, or you may be looking at a tree in the garden. In self-enquiry, you don't simply maintain an awareness of these thoughts, you put your attention on the thinker who has the thought, the perceiver who has the perception. There is an 'I' who thinks, an 'I' who perceives, and this 'I' is also a thought. Bhagavan's advice was to focus on this inner sense of 'I' in order to find out what it really is. In self-enquiry you are trying to find out where this 'I' feeling arises, to go back to that place and stay there. It is not simply watching, it's a kind of active scrutiny in which one is trying to find out how the sense of being an individual person comes into being.
You can investigate the nature of this 'I' by formally asking yourself, 'Who am I?' or 'Where does this ''I'' come from?' Alternatively, you can try to maintain a continuous awareness of this inner feeling of 'I'. Either approach would count as self-enquiry. You should not suggest answers to the question, such as 'I am consciousness' because any answer you give yourself is conceptual rather than experiential. The only correct answer is a direct experience of the Self.
jd: It's very clear what you just said, but almost impossible to accomplish. It sounds simple, but I know from my own experience that it's very hard.
DG: It needs practice and commitment. You have to keep at it and not give up. The practice slowly changes the habits of the mind. By doing this practice regularly and continuously, you remove your focus from superficial streams of thoughts and relocate it at the place where thought itself begins to manifest. In that latter place you begin to experience the peace and stillness of the Self, and that gives you the incentive to continue.
for the rest of this interview, see http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/jd1.shtml
jd: Is he [Sri Ramana Maharshi] on the record as saying that it [self-enquiry] is the quickest and most direct way?
DG: Yes. He mentioned this on many occasions, but it was not his style to force it on people. He wanted devotees to come to it when they were ready for it.
jd: So even though he accepted whatever practices people were involved in, he was quite clear the quickest and most direct tool would be self-enquiry?
DG: Yes, and he also said that you had to stick with it right up to the moment of realization.
For Bhagavan, it wasn't a technique that you practiced for an hour a day, sitting cross-legged on the floor. It is something you should do every waking moment, in combination with whatever actions the body is doing.
He said that beginners could start by doing it sitting, with closed eyes, but for everyone else, he expected it to be done during ordinary daily activities.
jd: With regard to the actual technique, would you say that it is to be aware, from moment to moment, what is going on in the mind?
DG: No, it's nothing to do with being aware of the contents of the mind. It's a very specific method that aims to find out where the individual sense of 'I' arises. Self-enquiry is an active investigation, not a passive witnessing.
For example, you may be thinking about what you had for breakfast, or you may be looking at a tree in the garden. In self-enquiry, you don't simply maintain an awareness of these thoughts, you put your attention on the thinker who has the thought, the perceiver who has the perception. There is an 'I' who thinks, an 'I' who perceives, and this 'I' is also a thought. Bhagavan's advice was to focus on this inner sense of 'I' in order to find out what it really is. In self-enquiry you are trying to find out where this 'I' feeling arises, to go back to that place and stay there. It is not simply watching, it's a kind of active scrutiny in which one is trying to find out how the sense of being an individual person comes into being.
You can investigate the nature of this 'I' by formally asking yourself, 'Who am I?' or 'Where does this ''I'' come from?' Alternatively, you can try to maintain a continuous awareness of this inner feeling of 'I'. Either approach would count as self-enquiry. You should not suggest answers to the question, such as 'I am consciousness' because any answer you give yourself is conceptual rather than experiential. The only correct answer is a direct experience of the Self.
jd: It's very clear what you just said, but almost impossible to accomplish. It sounds simple, but I know from my own experience that it's very hard.
DG: It needs practice and commitment. You have to keep at it and not give up. The practice slowly changes the habits of the mind. By doing this practice regularly and continuously, you remove your focus from superficial streams of thoughts and relocate it at the place where thought itself begins to manifest. In that latter place you begin to experience the peace and stillness of the Self, and that gives you the incentive to continue.
for the rest of this interview, see http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/jd1.shtml
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